♪ MAARJA: HELLO, AND WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF ALMANAC NORTH.

I'M MAARJA HEWITT, HOST OF TONIGHT'S "CORE CONVERSATION" ON ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION.

I'VE CALLED DULUTH HOME FOR 10 YEARS, LIVING IN THE HILLSIDE WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO YOUNG BOYS.

I NOW WORK AT A TECH START-UP DOWNTOWN, BUT FOR SEVERAL YEARS I WAS A NEWS ANCHOR AND REPORTER COVERING HUNDREDS OF STORIES ACROSS THE REGION, INCLUDING MANY ON TRANSPORTATION.

I'M HONORED TO HOST THIS EPISODE OF CORE CONVERSATIONS A SHOW THAT LOOKS QUARTERLY AT SOME OF THE "BIG ISSUES" IN OUR REGION.

IT'S AN EFFORT TO DIG DEEPER AND EDUCATE VIEWERS ON THESE SUBJECTS.

TONIGHT, OUR FOCUS IS ON ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION, AND SPECIFICALLY HOW OUR CURRENT SYSTEMS RUN AND WHAT NEW TECHNOLOGY IS ON THE HORIZON THAT COULD CHANGE THE WAY WE CHOOSE TO GET AROUND!

TONIGHT'S BROADCAST WILL SHOWCASE EXPERT PERSPECTIVES FROM BOTH MINNESOTA AND WISCONSIN AND EXPLORE THE VARIED METHODS COMMUNITIES IN OUR REGION USE TO GET FROM POINT "A" TO POINT "B".

WE WILL BEGIN WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF TRANSPORTATION.

FROM THE IRON RANGE TO BAYFIELD, MANY FOLKS LIVING IN THE RURAL PARTS OF OUR REGION MUST UTILIZE TRANSIT SERVICES IN ORDER TO GET THEIR GROCERIES, MAKE IT TO DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENTS AND SOCIALIZE WITH FRIENDS.

PRODUCER MEGAN MCGARVEY AND VIDEOGRAPHER AJ LARSON SPENT TIME IN GILBERT MINNESOTA AND ASHLAND WISCONSIN TO GET AN INSIDE LOOK INTO HOW THE BAY AREA RURAL TRANSIT, AND ARROWHEAD TRANSIT RUN.

>> FOR FOLKS IN RURAL AREAS, TRANSPORTATION CAN BE A HUGE ISSUE.

WE SPOKE TO THE FOLKS AT BAY AREA RURAL TRANSIT.

>> WE STARTED IN 1981 AS A TRANSIT COMMISSION WITH PARTNERS FROM ASHLAND AND BAYFIELD COUNTY.

THE CITY OF WASHBURN AND TWO TRIBES.

THEY CREATED THE TRANSIT COMMISSION KNOWN AS BAY AREA RURAL TRANSIT.

WE HAVE WHEELCHAIR LIFTS ON ALL THE BUSES.

WE WILL HELP THEM GET ON THE BUS, IT THEM STRAPPED DOWN, HELP THEM GET OFF THE BUS.

WE STARTED OUR FIRST ROUTE IN PARK FALLS.

A GENTLEMAN IN A WHEELCHAIR WAS SO HAPPY BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN FIVE YEARS HE WAS ABLE TO GO GROCERY SHOPPING HIMSELF.

IT GIVES PEOPLE THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

IT'S THE HARDEST PART RIGHT NOW OF THE CURRENT TRANSIT SYSTEM IN ASHLAND AND PRICE COUNTY IS THE FACT THAT WE ARE SO RURAL.

NOT EVERYONE LIVES ON A BUS PATH.

WE CAN'T MAKE A BUS PATH TO GO BY EVERYBODY'S HOUSE.

WHEN YOU'RE WITH OUR AGING POPULATION, YOU HAVE TO EITHER SELL YOUR HOUSE AND MOVE THAT YOU MAY HAVE LIVED IN FOR SO MANY YEARS OR YOU HAVE TO FIGURE ANOTHER WAY TO GET TRANSPORTATION.

THAT'S THE GAP WE ARE TRYING TO CLOSE.

I WOULD LOVE SOME POINT TO CONNECT TO SUPERIOR THE DTA TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION.

TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER WITH OTHER TRANSPORTATION AGENCIES TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK BETTER.

WE NEED TO ELIMINATE THE BOUNDARIES AND MAKE THE CONNECTIONS THAT ARE BEST FOR EVERYONE.

>> AFTER OUR RIDE IN ASHLAND, WE HIT THE ROAD AGAIN.

>> ARROWHEAD TRANSIT STARTED IN 1974.

WE ARE THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT AND THEY GOT AN ARIA ON AGING GRANT.

ON AGING GRANT.

FROM THERE, THEY EXPANDED OUT INTO A FULL-BLOWN TRANSIT SERVICE.

HERE TO SPEAK WITH US ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF TRANSPORTATION IN OUR REGION IS DENA RYAN, WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION URBAN REGIONAL PLANNER.

CHRIS BELDEN, THE DULUTH TRANSIT AUTHORITY DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND GRANTS.

AND SUPERIOR CITY COUNCILOR JENNY VAN SICKLE.

WELCOME, THANKS FOR BEING HERE!

LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, SIGNED INTO LAW WAS THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

WISCONSIN IS POISED TO GET ALMOST $1.1 BILLION FROM THE WISCONSIN TRANSPORTATION POINT OF VIEW, WHAT CAN WE SEE THAT MONEY GOING TOWARD?

>> IT'S AN EXCITING TIME BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE LARGEST TRANSPORTATION BILLS IN HISTORY SINCE THE INTERSTATE WAS BUILT IN THE 1950'S AND 1960'S.

IT CONTAINS $1.2 TRILLION.

AS YOU SAID, WISCONSIN IS GETTING $1.5 BILLION.

THAT'S 25% INCREASED WHAT WE USUALLY SEE.

THEN IN ADDITION TO THAT IS ANOTHER $224 MILLION THAT'S GOING TO GO INTO BRIDGE AND ROAD REPLACEMENTS.

THAT'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER 25% INCREASED.

WE ARE GOING TO APPLY THAT TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS FAILING THAT ALSO ON TOP OF THAT, 30% INCREASE INTO TRANSIT.

THERE'S A FEDERAL FORMULA OF TRANSIT A THAT WE WILL BE GETTING.

THE FIRST YEAR WE WILL SEE AT 30% INCREASE THEN 2% FOR EACH SUBSEQUENT YEAR.

THEN WE WILL ALSO GET $78 MILLION TO GO TOWARD ELECTRIC VEHICLE INFRASTRUCTURE AID.

MAARJA: A BIG BOOST.

>> YES.

MAARJA: MANY DIFFERENT AVENUES.

IN TERMS OF PROJECTS LIKE IN OUR REGION, DOES ANYTHING COME TO MIND THAT YOU KNOW THIS MONEY WILL HELP?

>> IN WISCONSIN, A LOT OF OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES ARE MAINTAINED BY THE LOCALS, THE COUNTIES.

THAT IS GOING TO GO INTO OUR LOCAL PROGRAM FUND.

IT'S GOING TO GET DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND WITHIN DOUGLAS COUNTY, THERE'S GOING TO BE QUITE A FEW PROJECTS THAT WILL GET PUSHED TO THE TOP.

EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE BRIDGE, WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN FUNDING FOR THAT YET BUT WE ARE STILL HOPING THAT WE WILL EVENTUALLY GET FUNDING FOR THAT IN A FEW YEARS.

MAARJA: SPEAKING OF THE BRIDGE, THE NORTHERN WISCONSIN REGION VERY CLOSE TO MINNESOTA.

YOU HAVE TO WORK VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER.

HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT DECIDING WHO TAKES THE LEAD ON PROJECTS THAT SPAN THE TWO STATES AND TWO REGIONS?

>> WE WORK WITH A LOT OF THE REGIONAL LEADING PLANNERS LIKE THE METROPOLITAN INTERSTATE COUNSEL THAT IS THE MPO FOR THE DULUTH SUPERIOR AREA.

WE ALSO WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND THE CITY OF DULUTH AND CITY OF SUPERIOR.

IT DEPENDS ON WHAT INFRASTRUCTURE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

FOR INSTANCE, THE BLOOD AND BRIDGE, WE SHARE THE INTERSTATE.

THE OTHER BRIDGE IS OWNED BY WISCONSIN.

GENERALLY, IT IS MINNESOTA THAT TAKES THE LEAD WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT TRANSIT BECAUSE TRANSIT IS OUT OF DULUTH.

MAARJA: SPEAKING ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF ENTITIES WORKING TOGETHER, THE DULUTH TRANSITORY -- AUTHORITY HAS A UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP GOING INTO DULUTH AND SUPERIOR.

HOW DO YOU MANAGE THAT RELATIONSHIP?

>> THE DTA, WE ARE A CONTRACTED SERVICE FROM THE CITY OF SUPERIOR SO THEY PASS ON AN HOURLY RATE.

OTHERWISE IN DULUTH, IT IS MOSTLY STATE, REAL, CITY MONEY THAN WITH OUR FLEET WE CONTRACT THAT.

WE WORK CLOSELY WITH THE COUNSELOR AND ADMINISTRATION TO ADJUST SERVICE LEVELS AND WORK WITH THEIR BUDGET.

>> AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, IS OUR JOB TO TAKE EVERYTHING DENA SAID AND EVERYTHING CHRIS SAID AND MAKE SURE THIS PROJECTS THOSE PLANS AND PROPOSALS AND ALL OF THE BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE PUBLIC.

WE KNOW THAT THE BLATNIK RIDGE IS NOT GOING TO SAY BROUGHT TO YOU BY ACME INDUSTRY, IT'S A PUBLIC RICH WITH PUBLIC DOLLARS, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE BUILD IT FOR EVERYBODY.

>> LOOKING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, THE CURRENT STATE IN TRANSPORTATION AND SUPERIOR, WHAT'S ON THE HORIZON?

>> IT'S A BUSY SEEN IN SUPERIOR.

THE CITY OF SUPERIOR, WE HAVE BUSTED OPEN TRANSPORTATION.

WE HAVE MADE SURE THAT IT IS HEAVILY INVOLVED AT EVERY LEVEL.

WE OPENED UP THE BUS SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL STUDENTS COULD WRITE FOR FREE.

THEY COULD BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO ACCESS AFTERNOON CLUBS AND THE LIBRARY THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE ALSO PUT GPS ON THE PLOWS SO THAT RESIDENTS WOULD KNOW WHICH CORRIDORS WOULD BE OPEN.

WE HAVE ALSO BEEN VERY ACTIVE, WE PASSED A NEW ZONING COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

WE PASSED AND ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION PLAN TO MAKE SURE THE PROGRESS IS BAKED INTO OUR PLANS SO WE CAN PROVE IT WHEN WE ACTUALLY BUILD STUFF.

>> WONDERFUL.

CHRIS, LOOKING AT THE DTA RIGHT NOW, HOW IS RIDERSHIP?

HOW ARE ROUTES?

>> THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN A VERY INTERESTING AND CHALLENGING TIME.

THROUGH DRIVER SHORTAGES AND UMD ENROLLMENT OR PEOPLE WORKING FROM HOME.

WE ARE SITTING AT ABOUT 70% OF OUR PRE-PANDEMIC RIDERSHIP.

OUR DRIVER SHORTAGES AND WITH THAT WE HAVE HAD TO SCALE BACK ROUTES.

WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH ENROLLMENT DECREASES AT THE LOCAL UNIVERSITIES.

THAT'S WHERE WE ARE SEEING OUR BIGGEST DROPS IN RIDERSHIP IS WITH THE UNIVERSITY PASS SYSTEM.

WORKING REALLY HARD TO TRY TO GET THAT COME UP THE NUMBERS TO CLIMB BACK UP.

>> COVID OBVIOUSLY BROUGHT ALL KINDS OF CHALLENGES.

ALSO I HAVE TO IMAGINE CONSTRUCTION, THERE IS A BIG CONSTRUCTION PROJECT GOING ON IN THE HEART OF THE INTERSTATE.

THE TWIN PORTS INTERCHANGE.

HOW ARE YOU MANAGING GETTING AROUND THAT AREA?

>> IT'S VERY TRICKY.

THEY JUST STARTED TAKING DOWN BRIDGES ON HIGHWAY 53.

IT TAKES BEING VERY NIMBLE OF MOVING ROUTES AND SOMETIMES YOU GET A CALL THAT IS SORT OF A SURPRISE AND HABER GOING TO CLOSE DOWN THIS ROAD AND WHERE DO WE FIT?

THIS 40 FOOT BUS.

NAVIGATING DOWNTOWN ESPECIALLY IN THE WINTER AND ON THE HILLS, IT CAN BE VERY CHALLENGING SO WE LIKE TO PLAN THAT OUT YEARS IN ADVANCE IF WE CAN.

>> AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THE BLATNIK RIDGE WILL POISED ANOTHER CHALLENGE TO OVERCOME.

DENA LOOKING AT CURRENT PROJECTS RIGHT NOW, ANYTHING THAT IS STANDING OUT THAT YOU ARE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT?

>> THE BLATNIK RIDGE.

[LAUGHTER] WITHIN OUR REGION?

I CAN'T REALLY THINK OF ANY PROJECTS BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING THAT HAS THE POWER OF THE BILL BEHIND IT.

IT'S MAINLY LIKE RESURFACING PROJECTS AND SO FORTH.

WE CONTINUALLY LOOK -- WORK WITH THE CITY OF SUPERIOR WHEN I HAVE INPUT ON WHAT TYPES OF ROADS NEED TO BE LOOKED AT.

>> WE HAVE LOTS OF PROJECTS.

[LAUGHTER] WE ARE ALWAYS ANXIOUS TO WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO MAKE SURE PUBLIC PROJECTS HAVE THAT INPUT.

I KNOW THE BLATNIK RIDGE PROJECT IS LOOMING FOR EVERYONE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING THIS PANEL.

I KNOW ALL THREE OF YOU WILL BE JOINING US LATER IN THE SHOW.

WE WILL SEE YOU THEN.

INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT CARS AREN'T THE ONLY ONES THAT DEPEND ON COMMUNITY TRANSIT IN ORDER TO GET AROUND, FOLKS IN WHEELCHAIRS AND VULNERABLE ADULTS ALSO RELY ON CITY BUSES IN ORDER TO PARTAKE IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

PRODUCER MEGAN MCGARVEY AND VIDEOGRAPHER TOMAS SODERBERG SAT DOWN WITH A MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY, TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BARRIERS SHE FACES AND WHAT ACCESS WE CURRENTLY HAVE HERE IN THE TWIN PORTS!

♪ >> I'VE BEEN LIVING IN DULUTH MY WHOLE LIFE.

BASICALLY.

MY PARENTS AND MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY LIVE HERE.

I JUST GOT A NEW JOB AT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT.

I USUALLY LIKE TO GET OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES A WEEK WHETHER IT BE WITH MY FRIENDS OR MY FAMILY OR EVEN STAFF.

WITH WORK, IT GETS EVEN BUSIER.

I WOULD SAY I HAVE A PRETTY BUSY SOCIAL AND WORK CALENDAR.

I LIVE IN CRYSTAL HOUSE AND WE HAVE A VAN THAT USUALLY TRANSPORTS US FOR APPOINTMENTS OR THINGS THAT WE WANT TO DO.

WE'VE BEEN BORROWING VANS FROM OTHER HOUSES TO TAKE ME TO WORK WHICH CAN BE FRUSTRATING FOR BOTH PEOPLE, BOTH HOUSES INVOLVED BECAUSE SOMETIMES, THEY MIGHT NEED TO VAN ALL DAY AND THEN, WE HAVE TO CALL ANOTHER HOUSE IN DRC SEAT TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THERE VAN TO USE.

IT'S LIKE PLAYING A GAME OF TRYING TO FIND A VAN.

♪ WHEN THE VAN IS NOT AVAILABLE, THE BUS IS WHAT I UTILIZED.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE BUS IS IT IS VERY HARD TO GET A SPOT UNLESS YOU CALL LIKE A WEEK IN ADVANCE.

IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

SOMETIMES I'M SAD BECAUSE I CAN'T BE WITH MY FRIENDS OR FAMILY SO THAT MAKES MY MOOD A LOT MORE SAD AND MELANCHOLY.

THERE IS A BIGGER DEMAND FOR TRANSPORTATION ESPECILLY FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND WE NEED MORE OF THOSE WHETHER IT WOULD BE BUSES OR VANS OR CARS.

IT JUST GIVES ME MORE INDEPENDENCE AND I FEEL LIKE I CAN DO ANYTHING OR ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

MAARJA: HERE TO SPEAK WITH US ABOUT TRANSPORTATION EQUITY AND ACCESSIBILITY IN OUR REGION IS AMANDA CROSBY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ARC NORTHLAND.

CHRIS BELDEN FROM DULUTH TRANSIT AUTHORITY.

AND ALICE TIBBETTS, WE WALK IN DULUTH, CO-FOUNDER.

AMANDA LET'S START WITH YOU.

LET'S TALK ABOUT ENTITIES WHO HELP THOSE WHO NEED HELP WITH ACCESSIBILITY TO TRANSPORTATION.

WHAT DO WE HAVE ACCESS TO IN OUR REGION?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR MEDICAL OR SPECIAL TRANSPORTATION SERVICES.

THEN YOU HAVE THE OTHER SERVICES WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE LAST.

BUT DULUTH, WE HAVE STRIDE AND IT CAN BE INCONVENIENT.

THEN WE HAVE OUR GTA.

THERE ARE SERVICES OUT THERE SUCH AS NORTHLAND AND OTHER DISABILITY ADVOCACY AGENCIES THAT CAN HELP NAVIGATE.

MAARJA: THOSE COMPLEXITIES, YOU MENTIONED IT CAN BE DIFFICULT NEEDING TO BOOK IN ADVANCE.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU HEAR A LOT OF?

>> YES IT CAN BE DIFFICULT FOR INDIVIDUALS TO GET TO THEIR JOB, TO HAVE EMPLOYMENT WITHOUT HAVING STABLE TRANSPORTATION WITH A RELIABLE DROP OFF PICKUP TIME.

IT'S ALSO HARD TO DO THE LIFE THINGS WE ALL ENJOYED LAKE MAKING A TRIP TO THE GROCERY STORE OR TARGET OR MEETING A FRIEND FOR COFFEE.

THINKING ABOUT THOSE BARRIERS THAT ARE IN PLACE, THERE'S SO MUCH EXTRA THINKING THAT NEEDS TO GO IN FOR SOMEONE WHO USES TRANSPORTATION.

>> YES APPOINTMENTS YOU HAVE TO QUAFF FOR BUT YOU ALSO WANT TO HANG OUT WITH FRIENDS.

>> YES IT'S MORE THAN JUST MEDICAL AND APPOINTMENTS.

CARE AND SERVICES ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, BUT THINKING ABOUT BEING HUMAN AND THOSE RIGHTS THAT WE HAVE.

MAARJA: CHRIS LET'S TALK ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY WITH THE DTA.

THERE ARE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE RAMPS.

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS WORKING ON?

>> IT'S MULTIFACETED.

THERE'S ACCESSIBILITY ON THE VEHICLE, GETTING TO THE VEHICLE SO RIGHT NOW IN THE WINTER WE JUST DEALT WITH ANOTHER SNOWSTORM.

SNOW IS FAR OUR BIGGEST BARRIER TO GETTING PEOPLE TO THE BUS AND GETTING THE FREEDOM OF MOBILITY.

WE ARE ALWAYS WORKING WITH LOCAL JURISDICTIONS TO IMPROVE THE CONDITIONS.

OUR BUS STOPS THEMSELVES WE ARE INVESTING TWO OR $3 MILLION IMPROVING THE SIDEWALK CONDITIONS AT BUS STOPS AND NEW SHELTERS, LIGHTING, AND OTHER AMENITIES TO KNOW WHEN YOUR BUS IS COMING.

>> YOU MENTIONED THIS, IT'S NOT JUST GETTING ON THE BUS BUT IT'S GETTING TO THE BUS.

GETTING OFF THE BUS AND WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.

IS THAT SOMETHING WHEN YOU PLAN OUT THE ROUTES YOU ARE VERY COGNIZANT OF MAKING SURE THOSE ARE ACCESSIBLE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SOMETIMES THERE'S ARIAS -- AREAS IN THE CITY THAT DO NOT HAVE SIDEWALKS.

WE WORK WITH THE LOCAL CITIES AND COUNTY AND D.O.T.

TO MAKE SURE THOSE ARE RANKED AS A HIGH PRIORITY FOR FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS.

>> ALICE, WHAT IS ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION TO YOU?

I KNOW IT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

>> I THINK IT'S AS MUCH ABOUT EQUITY AS IT IS ACCESSED.

WE REPRESENT THOSE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE CARS, WHICH USED TO GET AROUND BY TRANSIT, BIKE, OR WALK, OR HAVE CARS BUT PREFER TO DRIVE AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.

WE GOT STARTED BECAUSE WHEN I MOVED TO DULUTH THREE YEARS AGO, I WAS SO FRUSTRATED I COULDN'T WALK ANYWHERE SAFELY IN THE WINTER.

SO WE HAD A LOT OF MEDIA COVERAGE AND IT WAS CLEAR THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN DULUTH FELT THE SAME WAY.

WE'VE BEEN COLLABORATING ON AND OFF FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS.

THE LATEST INITIATIVE IS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE DISABILITIES COMMISSION.

THINK IT'S A REALLY TOUGH PROBLEM.

WE HAVEN'T MOVED FORWARD IN THE SOLUTION.

OUR JOB IS TO KEEP THE HEAT ON AND KEEP RAISING THE ISSUE AND KEEP TRYING TO BRAINSTORM SOLUTIONS.

WE ARE NOT ONLY CITY THAT STRUGGLES WITH THIS.

MINNEAPOLIS JUST AGREED TO FUND A STUDY TO SEE IF THE CITY SHOULD CLEAR SIDEWALKS.

DENVER, COLORADO HAS A NEW INITIATIVE.

CHICAGO HAS AN INITIATIVE.

WE SEEM TO HAVE REACHED ITS TIPPING POINT WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET AROUND MORE SAFELY IN THE WINTER BIKING AND WALKING AND GETTING TO THEIR TRANSIT STOPS.

THAT'S OUR FOCUS.

WE NEED TO INVEST A LOT MORE MONEY IN NEW BIKEWAYS, NEW PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE SO PEOPLE HAVE MORE CHOICES.

TRANSPORTATION IS THE NUMBER ONE SOURCE OF CLIMATE EMISSIONS AND WE NEED TO BRING THAT DOWN AND IT'S REALLY ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HELPS US GET THERE.

>> I DID SEE UNDER FACEBOOK EARLIER, THERE'S A SURVEY 2023 WINTER SURVEY.

IT LOOKS LIKE THAT IS A WAY YOU CAN GO IF YOU COME TO AN AREA THAT YOU CAN'T GET THROUGH BECAUSE OF SNOW, IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE, YOU ARE ABLE TO GO THERE AND MAKE NOTE OF THAT LET THE AUTHORITIES KNOW.

>> THE SURVEYS CAME OUT OF THE DISABILITY COMMISSION EFFORT TO WORK ON THESE ISSUES AND IT'S JUST ONE TOOL WE ARE TRYING TO GET SOME ASSESSMENT FROM WHAT PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES ARE BUT TO MAKE COMPLAINTS, THE CITY HAS A SITE ON THE WEBSITE THAT HAS BEEN PROBLEMATIC.

THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION WITH IT, BUT THAT'S REALLY THE PLACE TO GO AND REPORT THOSE ISSUES.

>> IS THIS MOSTLY A WINTER ISSUE?

OR WOULD YOU SAY IT GOES BEYOND THAT?

>> IT GOES WAY BEYOND THAT HAVING SAFE ROUTES FOR KIDS TO GET TO SCHOOL AND WALK AND BIKE TO SCHOOL WHICH IS A HUGE ISSUE.

ONE ELEMENTARY JUST GOT $45,000 RENT -- GREAT TO INITIATE A BIG CAMPAIGN AROUND THIS.

IN WEST DULUTH, THERE ARE ISSUES AS WELL.

IT'S ABOUT PUTTING IN NEW BIKEWAYS, CREATING BETTER CONNECTIONS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESS ABOUT HOW CROWDED THE LAKEWALK IS BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY THE ONLY ROUTE FOR PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS.

WHEN HE TO CREATE MORE INFRASTRUCTURE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO NAVIGATE BEYOND THE LAKEWALK.

>> LOOKING AT A WISH LIST OF ACCESSIBILITY TO TRANSPORTATION IN OUR REGION, AMANDA MAYBE YOU COULD GO FIRST.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE?

>> I WANT PEOPLE TO READ NOT -- REALIZE THAT TRANSPORTATION IS MORE THAN HAVING A CAR AND THINK ON OUR STREETS AND HIGHWAYS.

IT'S A NETWORK THAT INCLUDES BICYCLES, SIDEWALKS, TRAFFIC SIGNALS, ALL OF THESE THINGS WE DON'T THINK ABOUT.

I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT AWARENESS OUT THAT IT IS A WORK -- NETWORK AND IT SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE FOR EVERYBODY.

>> I WOULD HAVE TO SAY SNOW REMOVAL ON SIDEWALKS.

WE HEAR THAT FROM OUR PASSENGERS AND THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE HOW CHALLENGING THAT HAS BEEN ESPECIALLY THIS WINTER.

THAT IT LIMITS THEIR ABILITY TO MOVE AROUND THE COMMUNITY AS THEY WISH.

>> THE NEW FEDERAL MONEY IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME TERRIFIC THINGS AROUND BIKE WALK AND TRANSIT.

I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT OUR CITY STAFF, OUR CITY COUNSELORS, OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ALL GET OUT AND USE THE NETWORK OUTSIDE OF THEIR VEHICLES.

WE HAVE TO HAVE POLICYMAKERS SEE LIFE OUTSIDE OF BEHIND THE WINDSHIELD.

IF ALL YOU DO IS DRIVE, YOU HAVE NO PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT IT'S LIKE TO REALLY GET AROUND IN THIS TOWN.

>> THANK YOU ALL FOR SHARING YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

WE WILL SPEAK TO A FEW OF YOU LATER ON IN THE SHOW.

HERE IN OUR REGION TRANSPORTATION HAS BEEN EVOLVING FROM THE DAYS OF THE STREETCAR AND INCLINE RAILWAY.

DULUTH'S FIRST PUBLIC TRANSIT SYSTEM BEGAN ON SUPERIOR STREET DULUTH'S FIRST PUBLIC TRANSIT SYSTEM BEGAN ON SUPERIOR STREET IN 1886, WHEN SMALL CARS KNOWN AS BOBTAILS WERE PULLED ON RAILS BY HORSES.

DULUTH WAS GROWING QUITE RAPIDLY IN THE 1880'S AND THE NEED FOR A MORE EFFICIENT TRANSIT SYSTEM LED TO THE ELECTRIFICATION OF THE STREETCAR SYSTEM IN NOVEMBER OF 1890.

THE TROLLEY SYSTEM EXPANDED RAPIDLY, WITH MORE ROUTES BUILT INTO GROWING NEIGHBORHOODS.

ELECTRIC STREETCARS THRIVED THROUGH THE 1920'S, BUT WITH THE RISE OF MOTORIZED BUSSES THAT DIDN'T NEED TO TRAVEL ON RAILS, THE TROLLEY DAYS WERE NUMBERED.

LET'S LOOK BACK NOW FOR A BRIEF SNAPSHOT OF WHAT TRANSPORTATION LOOKED LIKE IN DULUTH BACK IN THE 1930S.

>> ELECTRIFICATION FEVER WAS SWEEPING THE COUNTRY.

WHILE THE DULUTH SYSTEM WAS HAVING A PROBLEM COMING UP IN THE FINANCING TO CONVERT TO ELECTRICITY, THE DOUGLAS COUNTY COMPANY HAD THE FIRST THREE MILES OPEN FOR TRAFFIC ON JULY 1, 1890. .

PEOPLE GATHERED IN SUPERIOR TO SEE THE STRAY CARS RUN BY CHAIN LIGHTNING.

LINING UP SHINY NEW CARS IN A LONG LINE TO SHOW THEM OFF.

THE DULUTH STREET RAILWAY, OR DSR, RAN UP FINANCING AND HEATHER FOR STREETCARS IN 1890.

SUPERIOR AND DULUTH.

>> THE OPERATIONS WERE IN 1887 AND 1888.

IN MINNESOTA, STILLWATER WAS FIRST.

1889, MINNEAPOLIS WAS SECOND.

ST. PAUL WAS NEXT IN 1890.

SOME OF THE SMALLER CITIES FOLLOWED AFTER.

>> THE EARLY FOR WILL ELECTRIC STREETCARS WERE QUITE AN IMPROVEMENT FROM THE HORSE CARS.

DULUTH STREET RAILWAY CARD NUMBER 78 HAS BEEN REFURBISHED BY THE MUSEUM IN MINNEAPOLIS.

ONE LOOK INSIDE AND WE CAN SEE WHY PATRONS FELT THEY WERE WRITING AND STYLE.

THE INTERIOR WAS COMFORTABLE COMPARED TO THE OLD HORSE-DRAWN BOBBERS.

>> THE INTERIOR WAS MAHOGANY AND BRASS.

THE DOOR HANDLES AND SEAT HANDLES WERE ALL BRASS.

>> THESE ELECTRIC CARS WERE MORE RELIABLE THAN HORSE CARS AND A LOT MORE EXCITING TO RIDE.

>> THEY HAD A QUICK PICKUP.

WHEN YOU STARTED FROM THE INTERSECTION, BY THE TIME YOU GOT TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERSECTION, YOU WERE ALREADY FULL SPEED.

>> THESE STREETCARS STOPPED ABRUPTLY WHEN THEY HAD THE BRAKES GOING.

YOU WOULD SEE SPARKS SOMETIMES WITH THE WHEELS SKIDDING ON THE RAIL BECAUSE IT WAS STEEL ON STEEL.

>> FOLLOWING THE INTRODUCTION OF ELECTRIC STREETCARS, AN EXTENSION PROCEEDED QUICKLY.

BY 1892, THERE WAS 20 MILES OF TRACK IN DULUTH AN ALMOST 14 MILES IN SUPERIOR.

IN 1893, SEVERE DEPRESSION STRUCK AND STREETCAR COMPANIES WERE HIT HARD.

THE COST OF CONSTRUCTING THE NEW LINES COUPLED WITH REDUCED RIDERSHIP LEAD CORPORATE CHANGES FOR THE DULUTH AND SUPERIOR STREETCAR COMPANIES.

EVEN WITH FINANCIAL PROBLEMS, COMPANIES HAD LITTLE TROUBLE FINDING BUYERS.

>> WAY BACK IN THE 1890'S, 1900S , 1915, AUTOMOBILES -- THE STREETCAR WAS THE METHOD OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

PEOPLE WERE CLAMORING TO INVEST THEIR MONEY.

>> COMPETITION FROM THE AUTOMOBILE BEGAN TO TAKE ITS TOLL ON THE STREET RAILWAY THE 1920'S.

AT THE SAME TIME, BUSES BEGAN OPERATING AS A FEEDER SYSTEM TO MAARJA: TODAY WE SEE A RETURN IN , OLDER METHODS OF TRANSPORTATION WITH A RESURGENCE IN BIKING.

WITH CARGO AND ELECTRIC BIKES, CYCLISTS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MANEUVER AROUND THE HILLS OF DULUTH WITH EASE.

HERE TO TALK WITH US ABOUT GREENER FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION IS SUPERIOR CITY COUNSELOR JENNY , VAN SICKLE.

BRYAN ANDERSON, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT 1 PLANNER.

ALICE TIBBETTS, AND JAMES GITTEMEIER.

WELCOME, EVERYONE.

BRYAN, I THINK I WILL START WITH YOU.

WITH MIN., TAKING A LOOK AT HOW YOU LOOK A THE REGION, WHAT IS SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORTATION TO YOU?

BRYAN: THERE IS A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT QUESTION.

A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH NONMOTORIZED TRANSPORTATION.

ALSO, THE ELECTRIFICATION OF OUR VEHICLES, MAKING SURE CHARGING STATIONS ARE IN THE RIGHT LOCATIONS.

A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN FOCUSING ON BIKING AND WALKING.

WE HAVE PUT A LOT OF INVESTMENT INTO THAT.

OUR SAFE SCHOOL PROGRAM AND ACTIVE PROGRAM.

THOSE ARE COUPLE THINGS I THINK SUSTAINABILITY RELATES TO.

MAARJA: I HAVE TO IMAGINE IT HAS CHANGED HOW YOU LOOK AT PROJECTS.

YOU ARE NOT JUST LOOKING AT AUTOMOBILE TRANSPORTATION BUT HOW PEOPLE CAN GET AROUND IN OTHER WAYS, AS WELL.

JAMES: CORRECT.

WE ARE LOOKING AT ALL USERS.

WE LOOK AT COMPLETE STREETS.

WE WANT TO INCORPORATE ALL DIFFERENT MODES INTO THE PROJECTS.

MAARJA: WHAT ARE SOME BIG PROJECTS IN DISTRICT 1 RIGHT NOW?

JAMES: WHEN IT COMES TO BIKING AND WALKING, WE HAVE A LOT OF URBAN RECONSTRUCTS COMING UP.

WONDERS COMING UP IN 2025.

WE ARE WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY TO PUT A PLAN IN PLACE FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT FACILITIES.

IN INTERNATIONAL FALLS, WE ARE WORKING ON A PROJECT THAT WILL COME UP IN 2027.

MAARJA: GOOD TO HEAR.

JAMES, HERE IS A BROAD QUESTION FOR YOU.

IS DULUTH BIKE FRIENDLY?

JAMES: WE ARE NOT A LARGE METROPOLITAN AREA WITH A LOT OF TRAFFIC.

WE HAVE A LOT OF STREETS WITH LOW TRAFFIC.

BY HAPPENSTANCE, YOU CAN GET AROUND.

WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO WITH OUR BICYCLE INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE IT FRIENDLY FOR ALL USERS, NOT JUST A STRONG AND FEARLESS CYCLISTS WHO ARE OK WITH CYCLING WITHIN TRAFFIC.

ABOUT 70% OF THE POPULATION WOULD GIVE BICYCLING A TRY BUT WOULD NOT RIDE IN CAR TRAFFIC SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

MAARJA: COUNCILOR VAN SICKLE, FROM THE SUPERIOR PERSPECTIVE, FOR ME, BIKING IN SUPERIOR WOULD BE EASIER, AT LEAST IT IS FLAT.

WHAT SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURE ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO TO MAKING SUSTAINABLE BIKE FRIENDLY TRANSPORTATION?

COUNCILOR VAN SICKLE: AT THE CITY OF SUPERIOR, WE THOUGHT ABOUT CYCLISTS IN THE WAY KIDS GET TO SCHOOL.

WE TOOK ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CLEARING SIDEWALKS.

ALL OF THE SAFE ROUTES TO SCHOOL IN SUPERIOR ARE CLEARED BY THE CITY.

KIDS HAVE MORE PLACES TO BE THAN JUST SCHOOL.

THEY HAVE VERY BUSY LIVES.

WE THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS OUR ENTIRE CITY ON THE BIKE IN FOUR SEASONS.

WE TALK ABOUT ALL ABILITIES AND ALL SEASONS.

I THINK PEOPLE PROBABLY DO PREFER TO BIKE IN SUPERIOR AND WE HAVE HIGH NUMBERS TO PROVE IT.

IF YOU EVER HEAR A NARRATIVE OF NOBODY USES IT, IT IS JUST NOT TRUE.

MAARJA: GOING BACK TO DULUTH, MAYBE JAMES CAN ANSWER THIS, IS THE DEMAND GROWING FOR BIKES?

JAMES: WE ARE SEEING THAT.

THE BEST EVIDENCE COMES FROM OUR BICYCLE SHOPS, THAT ARE BUSIER THAN EVER.

THE DEMAND IS GROWING.

WE ARE SEEING THAT AS WE BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE SEE AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF CYCLISTS OUT THERE.

OUR INFRASTRUCTURE WILL SEE AN INCREASE WITH PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS.

WE HAVE A VERY DISCONNECTED SYSTEM.

THINGS THAT PREVENT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE FROM BEING ABLE TO BIKE.

MAARJA: ALICE, I KNOW THE NAME IS WALK IN DULUTH BUT IT IS ALSO ABOUT BIKING AND ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORTATION MOVING FORWARD?

ALICE: I WANT TO GIVE A HUGE KUDO TO JENNY AND THE MAYOR OF SUPERIOR BECAUSE WHAT WE NEED ARE CHAMPIONS.

ELECTED OFFICIALS AND CITY STAFF THAT BELIEVE IN THIS AND WALK THE TALK AND BIKE THE TALK BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE FASTEST CHANGE COMES.

WE HAVE SPENT DECADES AND DECADES FIGHTING COMMUNITIES THAT DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY SHOULD BIKE, AND THAT BIKING.

IS NOT VALUABLE ESPECIALLY IN THESE DATES WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, IT HAS TO BE FAR MORE IMPORTANT.

I WOULD SAY IT IS HAVING THE POLITICAL WILL AND THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.

MAARJA: IT CAN BE KIND OF A DIVISIVE ISSUE.

YOU GO ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND MAYBE THERE IS A NEWS STORY ON BIKING AND THE COMMENTS, THERE ARE PEOPLE ON EITHER END OF THE SPECTRUM THAT HAVE VERY STRONG OPINIONS.

WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CAN BE SO DIVISIVE?

ALICE: I THINK IT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO ONLY DRIVE DO NOT HAVE A CONCEPT THAT PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING, OR HAVE TO GET AROUND WITH OTHER MODES AND THE ROADS ARE NOT JUST FOR CARS, THEY ARE FOR EVERYONE.

I LIKE TO USE THE TERM "RIGHT OF WAY" BECAUSE IT IS MORE THAN THE ROADS, IT IS THE BOULEVARDS, THE SIDEWALKS.

.

IT IS FOR ALL OF US.

THERE IS A PERCEPTION WITH MANY DRIVERS THAT IF YOU PUT IN BETTER SIDEWALKS OR BIKE LANES, SOMEHOW THEY ARE LOSING SOMETHING AND THAT IS NOT THE POINT.

EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE SAFE ACCESS TO GET WHERE THE NEED TO GO WITH WHATEVER MODE THEY CHOOSE.

BACK TO WHAT SUPERIOR IS DOING AROUND KIDS, A CITY THAT IS NOT SAFE FOR KIDS IS NOT SAFE FOR ANYONE.

MAARJA: THAT IS VERY TRUE.

JAMES, WHAT HAVE WE SEEN WITH BIKE LANES?

JAMES: WE HAVE ABOUT FIVE MILES OF CONVENTIONAL MARKED BIKE LANES.

OUR BIGGEST WIN IS OUR SHARED USE PATH NETWORK THAT IS ABOUT 25 MILES WIDE.

EVERY YEAR, WE ARE EXTENDING THAT.

THAT IS AN ALL AGES AND ABILITY BIKE WAY THAT A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE ON.

WE ARE WORKING REALLY HARD ON DOING THAT AND BUILDING THAT.

WE ARE GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE, TOO, FROM THE COMMUNITY, BUSINESSES AND ORGANIZATIONS TO DO MORE.

TO ME, THAT IS A WIN.

WHEN I STARTED WORKING ON THIS 20 YEARS AGO, THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF PRESSURE.

WHY ARE WE DOING THIS?

THOSE TO ME ARE SOME REALLY BIG WINS THAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

I WOULD SAY THE SOCIAL MEDIA DISCUSSION ON IT, THERE IS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON IT, AND IT USED TO BE A LOT OF ANTI-AND NOBODY WAS DEFENDING IT BUT NOW YOU CAN SEE WITHIN SOCIAL MEDIA, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

THERE IS MORE GROWING ACCEPTANCE AND UNDERSTANDING.

MAARJA: I AM AMAZED IN THE WINTERTIME HOW MANY MORE BIKERS I SEE OUT AND ABOUT BIKING IN THE COLD.

BRYAN, FINALLY, FROM THE STATE LEVEL LOOKING FROM MNDOT, ARE YOU SEEING A HIGHER DEMAND FOR MONEY TO INCLUDE BIKE LANES AND THESE BIGGER PROJECTS?

BRYAN: CORRECT.

COMMUNITIES ARE WANTING THOSE FACILITIES.

OUR GRANT PROGRAM IS REFLECTING THAT, AS WELL.

WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT MORE GRANT REQUESTS FOR BICYCLE FACILITIES IN RECENT YEARS.

MAARJA: THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING AND OFFERING YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND EXPERTISE.

FROM ELECTRIC CARS AND HIGH-SPEED TRAINS, INNOVATIONS IN TRANSPORTATION HAVE BEEN CONSTANT OVER THE LAST DECADE.

ONE NEW DEVELOPMENT IS HAPPENING IN GRAND RAPIDS, MINNESOTA, WITH THE GOMARTI AUTOMATED SHUTTLE.

PRODUCER MEGAN MCGARVEY AND VIDEOGRAPHER AJ LARSON BRING US AN INSIDE LOOK INTO THIS PILOT PROGRAM AND HOW IT HAS IMPACTED THE LIVES OF THOSE IT'S BEEN SERVING.

♪ >> 10 YEARS AGO NOW, THE INSTITUTE AND THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA STARTED WORKING WITH A FOUNDATION FOR OPTIONS FPR AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE TRANSPORTATION, MAINLY EVENINGS AND WEEKENDS.

THEY TRY TO NUMBER OF THINGS, CALL CENTERS, NOTHING EVER WORKED.

FRANK WAS THE ONE THAT ENCOURAGED ME FOR YEARS AGO TO GET ON THE GOVERNOR'S COMMISSION.

ONCE ON THAT COMMISSION, THEY HAPPEN TO BE SITTING IN THE ROOM.

CONTACTED HER AND SAID WE WOULD LIKE TO PILOT SOMETHING IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA.

IS THERE A COMMUNITY YOU KNOW OF THAT IS NETWORKED ENOUGH THAT COULD PULL THIS OFF?

TAMMY MADE THE CALL TO US IN NOVEMBER OF 2019 AND SAID, DO YOU THINK WE COULD DO THIS IN GRAND RAPIDS?

>> THE ONLY REASON GOMARTI IS HERE IS WE ARE ONE OF THE ONLY COMMUNITIES IN THE STATE THAT HAVE A FIBER-OPTIC NETWORK TO UPLOAD DATA EVERY DAY.

THEY RUN CONTINUOUSLY THROUGH OPERATING HOURS.

THREE OF THEM ARE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE AND ONE IS NOT.

FOR GOMARTI, FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED INFORMATION, DO NOT HAVE SMARTPHONES OR CANNOT USE AN APP, THEY WOULD TELL US WHERE THEY ARE, WHERE THEY WANT TO GO.

WE USE THE SAME APP.

IT IS CALLED VOC.

WE LOGIN, WE CAN SEE THE VEHICLES, WHO IS ON, ALL THAT FUN STUFF.

WE CAN CREATE RIDES, CANCEL RIDES.

>> WHEN THE ROADS ARE CLEAR, IT CAN GO AUTONOMOUSLY.

IT DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO DO ROUNDABOUTS YET.

THEY DO NOT KNOW WHEN STUDENTS MIGHT BE RUNNING AHEAD OF THEM.

RIGHT NOW, WHEN THE STREETS ARE SO HEAVY, THEY GO 25% TO 30% ON CLEAR ROADS.

THE CARS HAVE A LEARNING CURVE WITHIN THEM.

THEY GET SMARTER ALL THE TIME.

>> IN A SPLIT SECOND, THEY CAN GO FROM A TANA MR. MANUAL IF THE DRIVER DEEMS NECESSARY.

THE ROUNDABOUTS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

IT IS GAINING THE TECHNOLOGY THEY NEED TO IMPROVE THE SERVICE.

>> IF THERE IS A SPOT THAT DOES NOT LOOK SAFE FOR THEM TO DROP YOU OFF, THEY WILL ASK PERMISSION TO GO TO A SAFER SPOT.

IT IS TRYING TO GET THE APP AND THE STOPPING POINT, TECHNOLOGY WITHIN GOMARTI TO LEARN WHAT IS SAFE AND WHAT IS NOT.

♪ >> AFTER THEIR 18 MONTH PILOT PROGRAM, THEY WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND IT.

I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS ON THAT WHEN I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT GO TO WALMART ON THE OTHERS OF TOWN.

THIS GUY IS THE LIMIT WITH TECH -- THE SKY IS THE LIMIT WITH TECHNOLOGY AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THERE.

>> THIS PROJECT, THEY HAVE NOT TESTED AUTONOMY IN COLD WEATHER WITH ACCESSIBILITY IN A RURAL COMMUNITY.

IN 17 SQUARE MILES, OVER 70 STOPS, THAT IS HUGE.

THAT.

.

HAS NOT BEEN DONE GLOBALLY.

MAARJA: HERE TO SPEAK WITH US MORE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF TRANSPORTATION IN OUR REGION IS AMANDA CROSBY OF ARC NORTHLAND.

DENA RYAN FROM THE WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

THOMAS JOHNSON-KAISER FROM THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION CONNECTED AND AUTOMATED VEHICLES OFFICE.

AND DULUTH CITY PLANNER JAMES GITTEMEIER.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL BEING HERE.

GOMARTI, SUCH A COOL PILOT PROGRAM.

THOMAS, YOU HAD A BIG HAND IN THIS.

HOW DID GRAND RAPIDS GET CHOSEN AS PART OF THAT?

WHAT IS THE PLAN AFTER 18 MONTHS?

THOMAS: THIS WAS A COMMUNITY DRIVEN PROJECT.

GRAND RAPIDS CAME TO MNDOT AND OTHER PARTNERS TO FORM THE PROJECT.

WE ARE EXCITED TO HELP SUPPORT THE PROJECT.

IT REALLY CAME FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THEIR DESIRE FOR MORE TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS.

AFTER 18 MONTHS, WE ARE STILL LEARNING TO SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

THERE WERE APPLICATIONS FOR FEDERAL FUNDING TO ADVANCE THE DISTANCE AND THE TIMEFRAME OF THE PILOT PROGRAM.

MAARJA: IT IS VERY NEAT TO SEE THAT HAPPENING IN OUR NECK OF THE WOODS.

I DID SEE DOUBT IN ROCHESTER, THERE IS A SIMILAR TYPE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLE.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU HAVE HAD A HAND IN, AS WELL?

THOMAS: GOMARTI IS OUR THIRD AUTONOMOUS.

THE FIRST ONE WAS IN ROCHESTER.

THAT WRAPPED UP THIS AUGUST.

IT WAS A YEAR-LONG PILOT IN DOWNTOWN ROCHESTER.

WE HAVE ANOTHER PROJECT IN WHITE BEAR LAKE, OUTSIDE THE TWIN CITIES.

THAT IS A 12 MONTH PILOT.

MAARJA: THIS IS THE FUTURE OF TRANSPORTATION.

DENA, LOOKING AT IT FROM A REGION, ARE CONNECTED AND AUTOMATED VEHICLE SOMETHING YOU THINK ABOUT FOR PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE?

DENA: IN THE REGION, WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING.

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE WITH THE BUILD, THE TRANSPORTATION BUILD, WE HAVE SEVEN?

DOLLARS THAT WILL GO TOWARD -- WE HAVE $78 MILLION THAT WILL GO TOWARD ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND TO BUILD ON INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE WILL BUILD UPON WHAT WE CALL AFC, ALTERNATIVE FUEL CORRIDOR, WHERE WE HAVE THEM MAPPED OUT ON MAJOR ROADWAYS AND FREEWAYS.

WE WILL BUILD UPON THAT.

WE DO HAVE IN THE CITY OF RACINE A RESEARCH PROGRAM FOR VEHICLES.

IT IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN TOPS, TRAFFIC OPERATION SAFETY.

WITH THE GATEWAY TECHNICAL COLLEGE, WE BASICALLY HAVE THE SAME THING AS THE GOMARTI BUT IT IS BASICALLY RUNNING AROUND THE CITY WITH A PERSON AND IT, OF COURSE, BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT HAVE A PERSON IN THE VEHICLE YET BECAUSE WE ARE NOT AT THAT POINT.

IT IS BASICALLY TO GET THE CAV'S EXPOSED TO PEOPLE SO PEOPLE CAN GET USED TO WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF VEHICLE GOING AROUND DAY-TO-DAY.

MAARJA: THERE IS SOME FEAR THERE.

PEOPLE SAY THAT I CANNOT BELIEVE NOBODY IS DRIVING THE VEHICLE.

IT IS SOMETHING TO GET OVER.

BUT ONCE YOU GET OVER IT, A WHOLE HOST OF POTENTIAL.

AMANDA, IN TERMS WITH FOLKS WITH ISSUES WITH ACCESSIBILITY FOR TRANSPORTATION, DO YOU SEE HOPE WITH SEEING THESE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES AND HOW THAT COULD HELP?

AMANDA: ABSOLUTELY.

I AM LEARNING MORE ABOUT THEM AS I SIT HERE.

IT IS SUCH AN AMAZING TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCE AND CAN ONLY HELP PEOPLE LIVE AS INDEPENDENTLY AS POSSIBLE.

MAARJA: JAMES, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SUSTAINABLE INFRASTRUCTURE AND BIKE LANES.

HOW DO BIKES AND THESE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES PLAY TOGETHER?

JAMES: THERE IS A LOT OF LEARNING GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS IS SEPARATED SPACES, WHERE VEHICLES HAVE THEIR LANES, BICYCLES HAVE THEIR SPACE AND PEDESTRIANS HAVE THERE'S.

SOME OF THOSE ARE THE BIG PIECES.

BEING INTENTIONAL ABOUT HOW THIS INTERACTS AND HOW THE USERS.

.

WILL INTERACT MAARJA: THOMAS, LOOKING AT THE POTENTIAL OF THESE CONNECTED AND AUTOMATED VEHICLES, WHAT IS NEXT TO BRING IT WIDELY TO THE PEOPLE?

THOMAS: CURRENTLY, VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY IS HERE ALREADY WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF NEW CARS TODAY HAVING SOME LEVEL OF AUTOMATED VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY, WHETHER THAT IS LANE KEEPING ASSIST OR ADAPTIVE CRUISE CONTROL.

WE WILL ONLY FEW THAT GROW AND EXPAND.

WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO THE MORE ADVANCED LEVELS OF TECHNOLOGY TO TEST AND SEE HOW WE CAN GO FROM THE PILOT STAGE TO FULL-SCALE DEPLOYMENT.

WE ARE STILL A WAYS AWAY FROM THAT BUT THERE IS STILL THE LOW LEVEL OF AUTOMATED VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY THAT IS ON THE ROADS TODAY.

MAARJA: SO WE WILL JUST KEEP BUILDING TO THAT.

THERE IS A FEAR FOR SOME PEOPLE.

WHEN PEOPLE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THESE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES, PEOPLE COULD NOT LET GO OF THE STEERING WILL.

WE WILL JUST KEEP GROWING.

JAMES, LET'S TALK ABOUT BIKE LANES AND THE FUTURE OF BIKE LANES IN DULUTH.

PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE.

WHERE'D YOU SEE THAT IN FIVE YEARS?

JAMES: MAYBE IT IS NOT JUST FIVE YEARS, BUT MAYBE THE NEXT 10 OR 20 YEARS FOR BIKE LANES.

MY VIEW IS THEY WILL NOT BE CALLED BIKE LANES BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY SMALL DEVICES, E SCOOTERS, BIG WHEELS, WHATEVER IS COMING UP NEXT USING THESE SEPARATED SPACES FOR TRANSPORTATION.

THAT TERM FOR ALL THE SMALL, LIGHTWEIGHT DEVICES, OUR LANES WILL BE FOR THE MICRO MOBILITY DEVICES.

BIKE LANES WILL BE THE INITIAL THING AND THEN WHO KNOWS WHERE TECHNOLOGY WILL TAKE US AND WHAT KIND OF DEVICES WILL COME ABOUT.

THAT IS WHAT I REALLY SEE.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE SETTING UP THESE SEPARATED SPACES FOR THESE SMALL DEVICES AND PRIMARILY BICYCLES.

WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST SUMMER, THE AMOUNT OF E SCOOTERS OUT THERE ON THE NETWORK AND USING THE TRAILS AND THE BIKE LANES AND SIDEWALKS, WHICH YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO.

WE CAN ALREADY START SEEING THAT.

MAARJA: SHORT-TERM FUTURE, ANYTHING ON THE HORIZON FOR BIKE LANES IN THE NEXT YEAR OR SO?

JAMES: MORE OF OUR SHARED USE PATHS, TO BE QUITE HONEST, EXTENDING A TRAIL, WORKING ON THAT.

THAT IS ONE OF OUR BIG ONES.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW IN THE SHORT TERM.

MAARJA: DENA, LOOKING AT THE FUTURE OF TRANSPORTATION IN NORTHERN AND RURAL WISCONSIN, WHAT DO YOU SEE ON THE HORIZON?

THE BRIDGE IS THE BIG LOOMING BRIDGE RIGHT NOW.

DENA: THE CITY OF WISCONSIN HAS TWO INTERCITY RAIL PASSENGER ROUTES.

THEY ARE DOWN IN THE SOUTHERN PART.

ONE IS CALLED THE HIAWATHA.

THE OTHER IS CALLED THE TCMC, TWIN CITIES MILWAUKEE CHICAGO, A 400-MILE ROUTE.

IT WILL ADD ANOTHER TRIP ON THE EMPIRE BUILDER.

I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE EMPIRE BUILDER IS, BUT IT RUNS FROM CHICAGO TO SEATTLE.

THAT WILL START UP IN 2024.

AMTRAK IS ASSISTING US WITH THAT.

AMTRAK ALSO HAS INTERCITY THRUWAY BUSES.

THEY CONNECT RURAL AREAS TO THOSE STATIONS THAT ARE ALONG THOSE RAIL PASSENGER ROUTES.

IF WE GET ENOUGH WRITER SHARE ON THE TCMC THAT WILL GO FROM CHICAGO TO THE TWIN CITIES, YOU WILL SEE ANOTHER BUS ROUTE FROM SUPERIOR TO ASHLAND SO THOSE CONNECTIONS CAN BE MADE TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THAT INTERCITY RAIL PASSENGER.

MAARJA: WOW.

AMANDA, TO WRAP THINGS UP, LOOKING AT ACCESSIBILITY, WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO SEE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS?

WHAT IS YOUR WISH LIST?

AMANDA: WE HAVE THESE GREAT RIDESHARE APPS, UBER, LYFT, AND RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO LEGISLATION IN DESIGNING THESE VEHICLES TO BE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ACCESSIBLE UBER OR LYFT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

.

I THINK THEY WOULD BE EXTREMELY BUSY AND VERY LUCRATIVE.

I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DID NOT MENTION VOLUNTEER DRIVING.

THERE IS 168,000-PLUS RIDES THAT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR.

AFTER THE PANDEMIC, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE PEOPLE VOLUNTEER.

MAARJA: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR INSIGHT.

THANK YOU TO OUR GUESTS FOR SHARING THEIR TIME AND EXPERTISE ON OUR SHOW TONIGHT.

IF YOU MISSED ANY PART OF THIS PROGRAM, YOU CAN WATCH IT ON OUR WEBSITE PBSNORTH.ORG.

, FOR PRODUCERS MEGAN MCGARVEY AND GREG GRELL, I'M MAARJA HEWITT, GOOD NIGHT.

♪ ♪