hello and welcome to PBS North's Forum in the Northland with the candidates running to be du's mayor for the next four years I'm Kelsey roseth and I'll be the moderator for tonight's Forum which is also being simoc cast on our partner radio station the North 103.3 FM tonight's 1-hour forum is the final opportunity for duth residents to see and hear from the candidates before the election we welcome incumbent mayor Emily Larson who is running for reelection welcome thank you and former state senator Roger reinard is the Challenger in the duth mayor's race welcome to you as well we appreciate both of your participation in tonight's event truly before we begin here are the ground rules for our Forum each candidate will have a two-minute opening and closing statement the majority of the program will consist list of questions chosen by the PBS North editorial staff and some submitted by our viewers on social media channels each candidate will have 90 seconds to answer the question with a 30-second rebuttal allowed for the candidate who answers first we will Alternate which candidate answers a question first throughout the Forum earlier tonight we flipped a coin to see who would begin with opening statements we will hear first from mayor Emily Larson mayor Larson your opening statement thank you I'm Emily Larson and I'm honored to be your mayor I moved to duth at the age of 17 to go to Scholastica and I stayed I live in the hillside with my husband of 24 years we're in the same house where we raised our two sons who are now grown I've been mayor for two terms and I'm seeking reelection because the progress we've made together is worth fighting for and expanding we have taken on major issues one by one and delivered for duth an important transformative ways we've increased streets work 850 going from 2 miles a year when I took office to 17 miles this year 20 next year 50 in the next three we've cut the city's greenhouse gas emissions by 32% city-wide crime is down 22% we've added 1,700 new units of housing more than has been done in the same time period in three decades we are in our four straight year of record private sector investment and together we navigated a global pandemic I've talked with thousands of you and I know many of us are hurting and struggling and worrying we have serious issues that concern us as a community and there is so much that we share we all want our kids to thrive we want reliable city services and a strong economy we want meaningful work and a sense of collective purpose and connection and although we may differ on individual issues we all want what's best for ourselves and our neighbors we need to meet our struggles now and we also need a Clear Vision and path for how we move forward and here my opponent and I have very different visions and approaches to building our community over the next hour I hope to make these differences clear to hold each of us accountable for our records in office and our vision for moving forward and thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight thank you mayor lison and Mr Riner let's start with your opening statement as well all right thank you hello Northland my name is Roger Riner and I'm running for mayor because like many of you I'm simply ready for something different it's time we expect more and do better with our core city services like streets utilities and Public Safety our neighborhood parks and community centers engaging our residents and I'm also running because we haven't had a meaningful race for mayor since 2007 in fact four years ago 2000 2third of delians didn't even vote That's not healthy for duth or for democracy city government cannot nor should it do everything our role is to be a good partner to do the hard work of paying attention to the basics effective efficient and at a tax rate we can afford and sustain when done right this doesn't even make the news it just works and it's the foundation that allows our residents to succeed our businesses to grow and our neighborhoods to thrive d right now we're sort of good and we should be exceptional our unique neighborhoods abundant outdoor spaces the big lake and of course our people in the last census we grew by 400 residents one half of 1% while all other Regional centers grew by 10% that's not growth it's stagnation in thousands of conversations you've told me you are ready for something different that you want a mayor an Administration that cares about the things you care about housing across all income levels growing our commercial tax space streets downtown duth and affordable property taxes and not just because it's campaign season there are practical and tangible steps the next mayor and administration can take in each of these areas and it's time we do no magic wands or wishful thinking required just focus priorities good communication and hard work this is our 13th or maybe 14th and final debate that's a direct result of the first meaningful election in 16 years and I look forward to tonight's conversation thank you Mr Riner thank you so much and we'll start tonight with you and talk about housing so we know there's a lack of affordable housing in duth so how can the city alleviate that problem sure I mean the most critical issue with housing is that the market is in the middle we need housing across all income levels and I love to share the story and I shared it early in a conversation that uh the mayor and I were a part of of a friend of mine who tried and tried and tried to buy a home single mom with a daughter finally just gave up and so continues to rent if she could buy the home she wants that apartment would open up that apartment would be less expensive and or nicer so that problem of us not having inventory in the middle of the market is is a serious one and when we tear down about as many houses as we build so that we have a net um addition to our housing market of some 36 I think uh homes over a decade that is a real Challenge and we know that that's reality because we see it in the numbers while we grew by 400 residents all of our surrounding communities grew from 7 to 10% because that's where the housing was available so we really need to focus on housing in the middle of the market even upper end housing so that individuals can move through the housing profile if we don't we end up growing a larger ever growing um pool of people who actually need more affordable housing and when we look at that the real place for the city to be involved is in infrastructure so we look at 58 million in arpa funds that the city received and it was a great opportunity to invest those funds in streets in Utilities in the infrastructure that Builders can then build on and get homes to the market at a price that people can afford wonderful Mr Riner thank you so much and mayor Larsson may have your response to that yes thank you for the question housing is so important our community is safer and stronger and better when people have housing that they can afford that feels safe and feel strong as mayor this is where having relationships a track record and deliverables really matters I convened a housing task force and from that came a series of recommendations a 16 million doll Housing Trust Fund which we are using to help bridge a gap the early money in or drive affordability $19 million of our $58 million ARP funds went directly into subsidizing affordability we have now a housing developer on staff who is housed in our economic and planning divisions this is a top priority what we need to do as a city is to continue to be absolutely tenacious that's why the new proposal that we have adopted and accepted from for Lester which identifies housing is critical housing for Sen seniors that will not just provide needed Market that we need but also open up housing for others who are looking to get into the market and this notion accuracy matters on these issues this notion that my opponent just said that 30 some single family houses were built in 10 years actually not correct in my seven years it looking at the housing indicator report 301 certificates of occupancy for single family homes so accuracy matters as does the ability to use Tiff well my opponent opposed Tiff up at matter horn in high Harbor Highlands when those were the tools that could have been used to help accelerate housing in just the way that he demonstrated he'd like to do thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner would you care for a rebuttal of course so accuracy does matter 36 new single family homes as reported by the Star Tribune as reported by kbjr news in Du 389 built 353 demolished so we're adding but we're also subtracting at the same time and if we've truly had the largest housing boom in the last 30 years delians would would know it we wouldn't see the skyrocketing values that we see we wouldn't see the struggle that people have to get into homes and we wouldn't see the tax rates the tax rates that are going along with it so it's it's just not the reality thank you Mr reinard and mayor Larson this question is for you next um it expands a little bit about what we were just talking about so we understand with population growth being low how do you prioritize growth of the community when there is already some housing that needs to be taken care of for the people who currently live here I mean as far as the philosophy goes how do you handle that yeah that's really interesting and we hear a lot about climate migration and people moving into this community first of all a couple of things I do want to say that the Housing Trust Fund tool is incredibly important in 2005 my opponent helped create a Housing Trust Fund tool in 2007 he voted twice to abolish it having a record of investing in housing is one of the ways that we show consistency in meeting the housing needs of people moving forward there is no question so I have also been very clear as it relates to climate migration we got to put our own ma uh oxygen mask on first period so part of what we need to do is again look at every opportunity that we have to build housing and at the same time people want to live here because of the quality of life we've invested in Parks we've invested in in Trails I have just announced a 10-year four-phase plan to invest 36 million into our Park Citywide and we have to be mindful that there are important issues like child care and those Workforce ancillary uh efforts which my opponent is silent on which our families need to not just afford the housing that they want and deserve but to also meet the needs of their families to be reliable employers and employees and to be thriving as a family so there's a lot of things we need to do to build our community but one of the first things we need to do is celebrate every ounce of growth that we get this tired old narrative that we're a bad place to do business or we're stagnant who wants to come here and invest in that people don't the value and visions that we have are Crea incredible Economic Opportunity yes more work to do but we're on the right path to get it done thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner sure thank you well I think I mean just for starters if we're if it's important to be honest and accurate then it's important to also embrace the reality of where the situation is at so again we need to address the reality that the housing market is stuck in the middle but we also need to address the reality that given the limited inventory we have right now conversion to rental and conversion to vbo has become a pretty significant issue so when I sat with neighbors on Park point we had this conversation when I sat with neighbors by UMD we had this conversation and maybe surprisingly to some delians that are watching when I sat with neighbors out in West duth we had this conversation concerned about neighborhoods that no longer have neighbors um because of the conversion of our existing stock and that might not be a problem if we had more stock on the market but that's not the case and I just I just want to Circle back to this issue of what what that's doing to availability and also to housing prices so you look at a home that was listed in 2018 for $200,000 $199,900 that same home today is valued at $333,700 a 41% price increase in five years and if anyone's tried to look in the Last 5 Years you know that that's the reality and it also inhibits people who might be looking for a different home either to downsize or to grow up to one so we have to address the inventory issue and that is the key to them being able to welcome new residents thank you and mayor Larson do you have a rebuttal I do thank you so much uh couple of things first of all vbos are an important opportunity in this community for sure we have a current cap on vrbos that is something I support for the very reason that we want to maintain neighborhoods and neighborhood quality we also want to let the market economy have some navigation and some things that they can do but in that whole question that was just asked about housing and how to increase housing and how to help grow this population I did not hear practical or tangible steps I heard a regurgitation of frustration and a lingering of grievance and that is different than a vision and a plan thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner this next question will start with you so as a follow-up to the housing discussion let's discuss the unhoused population in duth so what Solutions do you offer to support people who are experiencing homelessness and how do you get to the root cause right well I mean an important question for our community um one that you know we tend to think of in just downtown but that that's not it's not just a downtown issue it's an issue that many neighborhoods are encountering and first of all when an individual is living on the street or living in a tent That's not healthy for the individual nor is it uh healthy for our community uh and we want to do better by those uh individuals in our community so there are several things that we can do we can better connect to our existing resources um and we are a community that that is blessed with um many nonprofit as well as um faith-based options we want to continue to work with our Outreach options from the substance use recovery team to our duth police and our duth fire um to folks like Deb hullman who are out there on a daily basis and then we also have to look at what are the intermediate steps to to especially to help individuals who are struggling from opio opioid or fentanyl addiction um which we know really is um driving up also related mental health issues and so one of the things that both of us actually have talked about is the effectiveness of the San Marco project which we both were involved with previous uh in our Service careers and I think that is an excellent model it is safe it is supportive it is caring housing that provides both the opportunity for someone to reach for help if they're able to do that but also a safe place to be if they're not able to do that thank you for that and mayor Larson your response thank you and what I just heard was a stating of the problem which is significant and first of all people who are living unsheltered they are mothers and fathers and daughters and sons and so we want to have a heart of compassion for them here's what we're doing right now I was part of the group that helped advocate for $1 billion doll of affordable housing money to come from the state of Minnesota as a board member of the Greater Minnesota housing fund I am out there getting every dollar that we possibly can into housing projects here we've expanded warming Center hours we've increased funding to our shelters we've added storage facilities and funded hygiene for people most importantly we want to work to move people into housing and how we do that is we do we incentify and we work on greater affordability we're very focused on that and I appreciate and understand how my sorry okay how my team is working hard on that we also need to go into encampments and work with people where they are at to help them move in advance into housing we have a cross Department team that does that well that works closely with Chum with the state and with St Louis County and finally we invest heavily into a community- based Vision called stepping on up it's a three-pronged uh plan that is led by Chum and Community Partners affordable housing Coalition and many others this is where we have to be moving with a heart of compassion but also focus and tenacity with all of our resources because having people housed it just makes life better it makes classrooms safer and smarter um it makes everything work better in our life and in our community and every single resident in this community absolutely deserves housing thank you so much for that and Mr Riner you're autal oh of course um well clearly what we're doing isn't working or it isn't enough or perhaps it's both so for clarity number one we better connect to our existing resources the ones things that we already have the things that we can potentially add some resources to to reach Comm uh to reach individuals and do better in working with them number two we work with the count in the state to have a new San Marco that works specifically with folks that are struggling with mental health and uh opioid or fryl addiction issues and number three we have to Advocate at the state level for long-term mental health care so that jail and the ER bed is not the preferred option thank you so much for that and mayor Larson this question is for you next um we've heard from local contractors and developers in the community that the city can be challenging to work with um and we know with time that could lead to stunted development and so what specific are is do you feel need to be improved great I'm so excited about this question we are in our four straight record year of private investment in the city of duth and I two years ago my state of the city address took on an economic development audit to ask for your ideas so that we could actually tackle and face this old tired narrative that duth is a bad place to do business the more your elected leader repeats that and says that it it permeates and here's what we're doing so we got this report back 200 people participated we had experts from around our community let us know what we need to do we have a new economic development director named Chadron chedy who's doing an outstanding job already aligning up what we need to be doing there we want to communicate more proactively with you we're getting Tools in place to do that we're working on our permitting to speed that up and we're getting really strong success we've added a housing inspector into my next budget so that we can move through more of these units faster and finally we have to EMB better values into everything that we do when you get a public subsidy with the city of duth you will use a project labor agreement which protects union workers and you will sign a community benefit agreement which is about making sure that people have a pathway to employment so what we do as a city is we are an incredible place to do business based not just on our expanding tax base but on the amount of Interest coming in um and we use our values as a way to move our whole Community forward when every single one of those projects moves forward thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner sure well first of all I just want to talk about the four record years of investment um ph50 of the city's 2023 budget book says this construction permits have been higher due to the 1 billion asentia construction project over the last few years the number of permits is actually down 5% from 2019 but the fee charge per permit has increased so permit Revenue remains stable so stable and slightly down is not the same as record-breaking and the $1 billion essential project doesn't actually add to our local commercial tax base as wonderful it is to have in our community and to Circle back to tired narrative I think it also is important for a leader to actually speak the truth about what's going on in our community perception is reality and based on many many conversations reality is reality I talked to an individual just last week who was going to do a four building project in Deluth gave up after um taking too many months and ended up building that very same project in Hermantown it is now open it is now full and it is contributing to the Hermantown commercial tax base instead of our commercial tax base and the reason that that is so critical is commercial taxes pay most of the bill so when we're not growing the commercial tax base we're actually increasing the pressure on residential property taxes and folks you've seen that you know what's happening with your own prop residential property tax bill it takes more of that in order to make up where we're at so let's be honest let's confront the problem so that we can move forward thank you Mr reinard and mayor Larson do you have a mod yes I absolutely do I am so proud of the work that we are doing in the economic development space we have taken an $850,000 annual liability in uh building at the air park and turned it in with Cirrus into a $15 million Innovation Center that is an expansion of tax base we got Costco in the city limit when it could have moved one block into Hermantown that is an expanse of tax base we have saved St paper that is an expans of tax base it all factors in together but it starts by having a vision by having the dedication by having an energy that people want to meet to invest and to expand and to grow their business thank you mayor lson and Mr Riner this next question is directed at you first um so this question comes from viewers by the way Rodrick and Jack so thank you for submitting um the city continues to financially support entities including the duth entertainment con Convention Center excuse me obviously known as deck Spirit Mountain and other enti and so we understand a couple of those have become profitable but both viewers would like to know your stance do you think they should be sold stand on their own or continue to operate as is sure and I think a little bit of a civics lesson is in order that both a deck and spirit which were specifically mentioned are actually independent authorities now the role that the mayor has is appointing all of the Spirit Mountain board members and seven out of the 11 um deck board members both are critical assets um to the region so that role of having board members or the authority to U appoint board members is an important one we do need to see both entities doing well we do need to see um both entities thriving the deck itself supports an entire region of hospitality Spirit Mountain of course is a great opportunity for visitors to come to our community you know when I think of spirit in particular um I look at the way we've been able to work on projects like the Lakes perior Zoo Chester ski hill other things in our community where it really is a great partnership with residents where we might have the asset but we have others that are in charge of taking on the management of that and so you know spirit in particular there was an opportunity there I think to look at different management so that it was outside of the authority that might also be an opportunity for us to look at how we continue forward with things like public golf within our community so somehow it breaks out of the racken stack of the city hierarchy and has an opportunity to be a little bit more entrepreneurial to be a little bit more aggressive to be a little bit more um Leading Edge but I think both are important assets uh and we do want to continue to partner with them Mr Riner thank you for for your response and mayor Larson your thought thank you yes thank you so much first of all Lester golf which was previously just mentioned actually was taken out and and managed separately it does not work it does not cash flow hope we get another question on that because I'm not going to spend more time on that now Spirit Mountain is one of those projects that I am so proud of our work because it was not working when I took office we established a mayor's task force a plan we now have a $24 million investment going into Spirit Mountain we have Nordic uh Center there we have a variety of things happening that is because we embraced the reality of that challenge we turned it around and we created a profit out of it something like the zoo again again was slayed forclosure and not cash flowing and not doing well it is an incredibly strong position now because of the work we are doing with that organization both of these things have happened in my tenure with Community being tenacious about their values as well and finally the deck is an asset that we have to protect it is important to our whole region and it is very notable that my opponent was the interim director just prior to the current director the problems that we are seeing there are ones that could have been forecasted at the time we're going to embrace the problem now we're going to provide an infusion of cash if needed and it has not been drwn down yet to help meet facility needs and we're going to continue to advocate because the deck is a facility that is important not just for entertainment not just for hockey but for our entire community and it's a really important part of Tourism Recreation and visitors thank you so much and Mr reinard you're rebuttal sure thank you you know it has been there are many things in this campaign that have been disappointing but this new attack of my uh time of service at the deck especially so 11 months during the darkest days of the pandemic when I was done with that mayor Larsson was kind enough to send a note and thank me for that work uh and thanked me for how I led and for the true partnership that we had as colleagues and of course that's not as politically expedient right now when I came in the deck had a $1.2 million budget Reserve when I left it was 2.1 and approaching three including the save our stages money which landed two months later thank you for that and since we're talking about leadership um one of our viewers named Joseph thank you uh had submitted a question to us regarding leadership so as mayor of duth you both face tough decisions if one of you whoever ends up in this position uh what is your executive experience in leading an organization and tell us about your leadership when there's so much to be done and limited resources and time so me first oh great well thank you for this question I am thrilled to serve as your mayor for the last eight years and my com my commitment and my style of leadership is to hire people who are exceptional at what they do to move move out of their way to give them what they need and to let them shine that is who I am that is how I lead if you are in a leader leadership meeting with me everybody goes around the table everybody says what they think I will always speak last we will agree on a plan we will open the door and move forward as a team when something goes wrong in the city I will take the Heat and it's not comfortable and that's still the job when something goes right I will 100% move out of the way and give credit to other people now that has sometimes people will tell me you should take more credit you should do more of that that's just not who I am I show up as a leader with the energy that I have to be effective to be efficient I have a record and unlike my opponent who is uncomfortable with accountability on a record bring it on this is what the work is we are a democracy that demands accountability and that is acceptable when you ask for somebody's vote it is deeply personal you don't get to turn off whether someone has an opinion about it so I am proud of the work and the leadership team that we have built our record of success how we're moving the community forward how people are advancing not just within the organization but outside of it and my executive experience is strong it is clear it is public and I want you to hold me accountable for it thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner what is your response on that thanks I think some interesting comments there that I'm not sure based on what D thank you so much we have had nearly 2,000 conversations many of them an hour many of them more than an hour my door has been open to anyone that has been interested in in meeting with me um you know I feel fortunate to come to the role with a lot of experience um a certainly prior elected experience both at the local and the state level Navy experience I'm in my 19th year of service as a commander in the US Navy Reserves I'm second in command of our largest public affairs unit um have had the opportunity to lead um Sailors and others in some really challenging circumstances like Afghanistan and the coid um pandemic in Italy when that was the global hotspot um and I've also had the opportunity to work with teams of course on the civilian side um and I'm so grateful to have the support of duth fire I'm so grateful to have the support of duth police and I would just note that neither one of us has been endorsed by askme which is the other largest organization renting or representing current city hall employees so no one that represents our employees right now is asking for the current Administration so when we think about leadership it is about building and recruiting talented teams it's about supporting them it's about collectively setting Direction accountability and measurables and then it is about protecting them so that they can do the work and you can take um the arrows which certainly come thank you Mr rinard and mayor Larson your yes thank you so much yes I really appreciate that endorsements matter to my opponent when he wants to talk about those that he has but somehow don't matter when other people want to talk about them thank you to the 17 ,000 workers in the aflci the governor mayor NES senators clashart and Smith workers across the Spectrum uh for your support but more importantly I want to talk about leadership requires consistency this is not about building a resume this is not about short-term steps every leader we are grateful for everything that they bring but what 12,000 voters have told me at the door is that you want consistency and proof of record thank you mayor Larson and Mr Riner this question will be directed at you so we understand it's a difficult recruiting environment for the police and fire department something we were talking about just a second ago so what can the city do to better support these entities yeah really great question uh and we are we're short in both duth fire and we're short in duth police and a time when we're really asking that team the public safety team um to be engaged in doing hard work in our community I'm grateful for the opportunity I've had to do ride alongs with both police and fire and again incredibly grateful for their strong support in this election you know it really comes down to three things it's competitive comp compensation thank you to the city council who advocated for both the um increase in the police salary as well as an increase in the fire salary um it is good benefits and it is a great place to work and so some of the things that we've seen happen in recent years have run counter to that you know there was a threat to uh benefits which caused over 300 years of experience in the Poli in the duth fire department to walk out on the same day December 31st a couple years ago um when we retra do attract and um and hire new police and new fire we have a tough time right now and hanging on to them and we see some of those that we have skilled up go to other places where they're able to more do more money and have a little more limited um scope of work so one of the things that the the mayor can do in uh in addition to the internal things is also just be a cheerleader and be an advocate and have their backs and be active in that recruitment process so that we can attract and retain and keep the staff that we need um for the women and men that are out there serving us thank you for sharing those thoughts mayor Larson yes thank you so much so yes we support our staff and thank you to public workers whether you work for the city the county or some other entity your work is really valuable and what you do especially at the city of duth keeps people working and moving and getting about their day and that is really important what I have done in the past eight years is support equipment purchasing when it's unpop especially when it's unpopular because that's what our folks need supported the wage increases that were led by the city council because that was what they wanted to do and that's great I could veto that why would I you know this is what we want and what we need to be doing conversely I will share that my opponent in 2004 uh voted to cut a fire rig and I think that's notable and it's important to pay attention because that's also a downtown safety that was a rig that uh serves downtown Lincoln Park and so be careful about consistent consistency of record and consistency of vote and consistency of presence and consistency of principle um other things that we have done is we have expanded staff we want to make sure that we are supporting uh Public Safety that is not just police related right if people have a mental health or chemical health need we want Community crisis response we want our CT uh Team there we are the first Department in the United States to have a nurse on staff to help protect and serve people we've added a city prosecutor so that we can continue to move forward on illegal behavior and fully prosecute I advocated for a misdemeanor Court which just went into process earlier this spring all of that supports the safety of our staff thank you so much for that Mr Riner would you care to have rebuttle sure and maybe we'll get a chance to talk about this as well but the city's finances 20 years ago were very different than the city's finances are today um and we don't have to go back that far to look at the impact of budget cuts to police and fire last spring we had proposed across theboard budget cuts that included Public Safety both police and fire and it took the council raising its voice and then an allocation of onetime arpa funds in order to restore those cuts to one of our city priorities and that's Public Safety thank you for that so our next question is regarding crime in the city so many people feel there's a crime and safety problem in pockets of our community especially downtown what would you do to make downtown safer for Citizens great start with you me first okay great thank you for the question thank you we want everybody to feel safe in this community whether you live downtown or in a neighborhood I live in the hillside I want my neighbors to feel as safe as you and yours in whatever neighborhood you live in i convened a downtown task force uh that started last year and finished their work this year we made 27 recommendations 24 of them are underway we are doing what cities across the country are now just starting to do which is actually have a conversation about how to activate downtown when you have an empty downtown our downtown used to have 18 19,000 workers a day we now have 8 to 9,000 workers a day you have a lot of empty space we have to fill that up we've done a housing study and we have predicted 2200 units of housing to go in downtown we've made one announcement already to flip the ordine building from Office into housing we're working on a First Street development which is going to have 300 units of housing when we fill spaces with positive behavior that's one important way to do that Citywide crime is down 22% and when we talk about downtown we have calls for service up but actually crime going down calls for service are good that means you're letting us know that you want us to be there and that means we're also doing some proactive work we've also invested in the clean and safe uh Outreach model to make sure that people are getting greater Street Outreach um and doing and and invested in the parking ramps both lighting and security so the idea of downtown being the vibrant place that we know it is and will be again we're on the path there thank you so much for that and Mr Reiner your response thanks such an important question I mean Public Safety is something that's on the minds of many delians and the perception again is reality it's the experience that many have in our community and we have to also look at the full spectrum of statistics and also I would just say the individual experiences you know we had an incident of gun violence last summer where an individual was killed and we had homes in West alth uh that had random bullet holes I mean that affects people's idea of Public Safety and how they feel living in their neighborhood the FBI statistics show us that in 2016 we had 312 violent crimes last year we had 318 so we're still sort of in that same place when we SP uh think specifically of downtown more people downtown is the key to that and housing downtown is also the key to that so how we can reuse the building that we have downtown that right now have um excess commercial or excess space largely commercial space make that retail space make that commercial space and also residential space we have to address cleanliness and safety issues with our downtown but because of frankly the housing situation we have it's also a great motivator or incentive for housing to happen downtown which will then give us people and people give us eyes on things people also give us retail they give us bookstores and coffee shops and restaurants and the things that you like to see you know in Minneapolis the fastest growing neighborhood is Downtown Minneapolis thank you so much for that and mayor Larson you're abuttal yes thank you so much so here's what I'm eager about for our downtown we have a billion dollar Hospital which has a Medical District that has a hundred million of public investment in there because we advocated for it on the other end we have the nlx train coming in again years of advocating in between a street that has $50 million of investment made possible by my work in that of this community and and along the way the NorthShore theater the Minnesota Power Plaza project projects underway at the library in the ordine building we are on a very important strong path thank you for your thoughts on that while we've talked a little bit about the vibrancy of duth one thing that we've been discussing here at PBS are the root causes so what do you see as the root causes and how would you address them Mr Riner would you like to start well I think we have a couple things number one it has to do around population and population growth when we add new people we add new ideas we add new energy um number two it has to do with the environment that we have especially around entrepreneurs and their ability to take new ideas and bring them to life um and Implement them within our community you know one of our near neighbors Superior is just doing a really great job with this and you go down Tower Avenue and look at uh new businesses that are starting they're attractive they're fun you want to spend there you want you want to stay there you want to hang out you want to shop number three it has to do with where are the secondary and tertiary opportunities related to the existing core industries that we already have things like Transportation higher education medical um engineering um and tourism of course and where are those additional um business opportunities that that we can grow um into and out from but when we back up we come back to something that we started the conversation with and that's housing you know when we want to grow those businesses and add more dynamicism to our community we also have to have the workers that um can can help grow those businesses and those workers need to have homes so we start with those easy opportunities for us to connect to our existing core Industries but then we also really focus on the midmarket housing that's lacking right now so that people can say yes I want to be in duth yes here's a great job I want to bring my energy and ideas there and I can also find a home and build a home there thank you for sharing your thoughts on that mayor Larson let's hear yours yeah one of the things that I'm really proud of as a community is what what we're seeing for growth in the neighborhood of Lincoln Park here's a great example of a neighborhood that I prioritized along with the community and part of what we did is give money and ideas and some ability for people to purchase buildings and do storefront work then we moved out of the way to let them be exceptional at creating their business idea we've infused housing into that we've infused uh transportation we now have a $25 million raise Grant going into that community and exceptional climate uh a climate forward plan that is looking at geothermal and looking at using waste uh collection from wlssd to heat that neighborhood that is important that is a neighborhood with a vision on top of that a park process that has 4.5 million into the Lincoln Park a million of that as a National Park Service Grant what we do as a community is we create a sense of P of place and space that people want to be we do that by making sure that people people feel seen and heard that they have places to go that parks are invested in this is all a part of where we are moving as a community some of this work is well underway some of it we have more work to do on but we are prioritizing the needs of residents we are listening with residents the plans that we are enacting still to this day are based on the hundreds of people who impacted our comprehensive plan imagine duth 2035 uh when I first took office that is still the vision today there is a distinct difference between talking about projects and ideas and having a cohesive Vision around which we move in entire Community forward thank you for your thoughts on that Mr Riner you're autal sure I would just add I think one of the great opportunities is once folks are here to help them really feel engaged to really feel invested in our community you know great example we both had the opportunity to meet earlier with uh the Softball Association that represents duth uh and they talked about how they've invested themselves over $100,000 into the fields that their kids play on especially their female athletes we hear similar things from hockey we hear similar things from folks in Deluth Heights who don't want to lose that Community Club and just waiting for the city to say yes help we we want you to be engaged thank you so much um mayor Larson this question will start with you and I've got a slightly different question for you Mr Riner um so mayor Larson we understand that you've prepared the budget for 2024 what are your main priorities and what are the differences between the previous year oh great great question well it's a it's a wonderful it's a very exciting budget actually uh taxation is something and the general fund budget is something I take really seriously I pay these same taxes that you do 27 cents of your tax dollar goes to support the city of duth and I am happy to talk about that 27 cents anytime LGA local government Aid is something that I have fought for with this community for eight straight years we finally got the most meaningful increase that will radically change our budget 4.4 million dollar allocated to us annually it had been fairly stagnant for 20 years placing undue responsibility for our services on property taxpayers there's no question about that Governor walls will absolutely Echo that who is supporting me in this race and knows both of us um conversely I will share that uh my opponent during his time in office and he'll he'll talk about my taxes and I'll get a chance to come back to that uh raised and supported property tax budget of an 52% increase in your property taxes and initiated a $5 Street streetlight fee which took me six years to undo and took other city services out of the budget so pay attention to a record and what you're getting for that um this budget prioritizes our organization it invests in staff it gets 20 miles of Street done um and it invests in downtown safety so I'm going to get a chance to come back and rebuttal and I'll save the rest of my comments for then thank you so much for that and so Mr R the question for you would be how would your budget differ from what she has proposed well I mean some of the things that you really need to look at with our current city budget is focusing on those core city services and it is where do we invest our time and where do we invest our energy uh streets utilities Public Safety our neighborhood parks and our community centers and you look at the ability we have to deliver on those things and folks just don't think that we're delivering on them well so one of the first things that I will do in office is look at my leadership team and set that leadership team once the leadership team is set we're going to look at the department structure and the department structure matters because that's what informs the budget you know and as one of the C Council candidates said if nothing changes nothing changes and we have to actually have that conversation of what is the organization structure organizational structure within City Hall so that we can look at what those deliverables are those deliverables then drive the resources needed you know on homeowners you know you've seen it in your property taxes we've gone from an $80 million general fund to a proposed $108 million general fund next year so resources is not the issue um and we also have a healthy budget Reserve we also have a healthy Community Trust Fund and again we receive $58 million in arpa funds more than every other city in Minnesota combined except for Minneapolis and St Paul so resources right now are not the issue it is saying these are going to be our priorities and this is where we're going to spend our resources streets utilities and Public Safety thank you for sharing those views and mayor Larson your rebuttal yes this is where short-term political magical thinking comes in two of every $3 do of our city budget already goes to Public Safety so the question is how and where not how will you start thinking about it but specifically where do those cuts come from do they come from libraries or Parks do they come from people reviewing plans and permits they're going to come from somewhere so let's be honest about that and there's a difference in the ARP funds between money that is uncommitted and money that is encumbered and I would hope I get another chance to talk about that thank you so much and just a heads up candidates we're moving to 60c responses and we're finish out the rest of the time today so just want to give you a heads up um so Mr Riner despite efforts to increase Road repairs and reconstruction we've still heard from viewers that they're disappointed in the state of the city's streets how would you recommend fixing that sure I mean we have to do um a couple really straightforward things number one we have to look at our street system first of all let's just acknowledge the streets are not in great shape um we have to look at the streets as an entire system and we look at where is it that we have um streets that are in great shape streets that are in good shape streets that are in bad shape um and then we also share that information with homeowners you know as I've made house visits I've had homers that are very concerned about their streets and I've been able to save you know relatively it's actually in pretty good shape um number two we continue to do the work that we're doing with the half-cent sales tax um that's getting us from uh the two that the mayor will mention to the 19 that we're doing this year 20 next year but then we fall back down to 14.9 14.7 you know our one of our key Partners St Louis County took takes the same half-cent sales tax and bonds against it they built uh $68 million of new streets in three years and now they primarily spend that time maintaining what they have instead of constructing and they said that's the key to getting over the hill thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and mayor Larson bonding is reckless it is what got us into this place in the first place and my opponent should know that because he served on counil at a time where he approved one mile of year one mile of road a year the next year he approved two miles of Road a year the half perent sales tax is gamechanging but wasting that and betting that on bonding that that is risky that will absolutely set us back I just heard that the county build roads but not now they're just maintaining them they're not even building more than with that money this is not the sales job that actually gets streets done in 2006 my opponent cut heavy equipment operators when he left office a third of the streets crew was gone I have grown our streets grew we have invested we have grown streets 850 we are also doing lead lines and utility work this year we had 30 seasonal workers we got every single primary and secondary Road patched across the city that hasn't happened in decades we want more we deserve more we're on the path for more thank you so much and Mr Riner your followup thanks you know folks again the financial situation of the city today we just went through those finances is not what it was 20 years ago I wish I had the time to read a great comment from then Car councelor Charlotte Gardner who served on the council with me drawing that comp comparison and frankly it should not be embarrassing or it should not be a shame that we talk to others who have the opportunity to do good work folks go anywhere in duth where a city street and a County Street meets and you'll see that night and day difference and if bonding is terrible then I'm assuming we're not making any bonding requests in the upcoming session thank you and last question for you both tonight um with colder weather on the way uh we want to talk about winter so residents are still sharing that they're waiting days to have their street or alley plowed following a major snow event so mayor Larson let's start with you what do you attribute this to and what can be done to help clear streets more quickly great thank you for the question again I'm going to start with you're right the our budget is in a much better position than it was 10 and 20 years ago because of the hard work we've done to get it there so why go back and risk it on strategies that would only pull us back into an era that risks our doublea bond rating our nationally recognized Finance team but on to snow uh I have built our team back up from from the numbers at which they were when my opponent left local government the last time he was there uh we have got equipment that we are buying with this new budget and this budget actually invests in equipment it invests in Street crew and we have a snow emergency system that I'm sure my opponent will talk about that I put into place uh it is intended to help us move quickly through a snow event it's much easier when blizzards don't happen on Sunday nights when everybody has to change which was a big part of our record winter last year I wanted first of all thank our city staff who are amazing and put in 80h hour weeks to help clear a snow so we can all keep moving thank you so much and Mr Riner great thank you so a timely question literally because as I came to the studio I checked my mail um got the latest attack mailer uh and then also got the snow emergency uh pamphlet that came in the mail you know a snow emergency is a great tool it's something that I advocated for and actually drafted when I was on Council the first time I wish we would have used it last winter the SnoWest wi snowiest winter that we ever had and one of the challenges that our plow Crews have is that when we don't partner when we don't participate when we don't help move Vehicles it makes their job that much more difficult so as we look at winter being just around the corner in fact it's snowing tonight in Northwestern Minnesota I don't think it's quite going to make it here it is incredibly timely but I would also add that what is underneath the snow matters so when you look at the condition of the street that the plows are then going to dry on those potholes that got filled this summer many of which have come unfilled as we approach winter are going to lead to more asphalt being taken up when the water and the ice adheres to the um snow that's being Cloud thank you so much and mayor Larson your rebuttal yeah this is where I I do want to bring up the tagline that my opponent uses which is expect more and do better and how offensive it is to City staff and here's why you don't use that phrase with people you want to build power with and do things with what you say to them is how can I help you don't say I expected more and you need to do better to the plow driver who's been out for 80 hours or the water treatment plant worker who practically slept at the plant during the pandemic you offer the resources you staff them you get the equipment you move out of the way so they can be effective all right you two let's transition to closing statements Mr Riner you have the floor sure great thank you well thank you WC for wdsc for hosting tonight I hope you paid attention to what you heard tonight and also what you didn't I won't tell you I'm the best and perhaps just as importantly that someone else is not you did not even hear me use the word opponent it's inherently divisive and this election has never been personal how we choose to campaign matters and in these closing days I ask you to reflect on that we can choose to add civility to our community or detract from it we can behave in ways that encourage others to consider serving or make them ask why would I ever put myself through that mayor Larson has repeatedly said pay attention the details matter and the choice is cleared I agree six attack mailers and Counting early today there was a radio story that ran in which mayor Larson said her campaign has nothing to do with these mailers yet we get the ones that say prepared and paid for by Emily Larsson for mayor for the first time ever we've seen the DC Playbook applied to one of our local races mailers websites social media ads words like risky dangerous and Trust intended to mislead and to make you afraid if you're still undecided in this race I invite you to make your decision based on that alone say no to these tactics the ends don't justify the means and if they work in this race we will see them from now on still worse they serve to discourage qualified candidates from running we need more meaningful choice not less duth you've had the opportunity to see my public service for nearly 20 years a deep commitment to our city to our state to our country you've also had the opportunity to see how I do the work thoughtful approachable Hands-On the ability to gather diverse stakeholders and develop practical Solutions over the past 10 months we've had thousands of conversations with everyday delians and the choice is clear if you think Deluth is headed in the right direction then vote for a third term but if you expect more if you think we can do better if you have concerns then join your friends and neighbors and voting for something different on November 7th thank you thank you so much for leading our closing and Mary Larson let's have you fin thank you so much yes tonight was really important this is the last time my opponent and I will be in the same room debating with and for this community on the issues that really matter every single day we are genuinely different and distinctive people and I hope you've seen that I have a record a record that I am proud of my opponent has one too and I expect in this vibrant democracy that you would hold us equally accountable for all of who we are what we need at this this moment as a mayor who sees not just the genuine hurt and grievance of the now but also carries the hope of a collective Vision to pull us all through and that is what I bring since January my team and I have door knocked 12,000 homes across the city we've talked with thousands of people you've been sharing with me your ideas and your concerns your hopes and your dreams and all of it is important because despite the many incredible successes we've discussed we still face serious challenges and I share your impatience and your urgency for more this next term it is about continuing our work on streets and Public Safety but it's also about revitalizing our downtown it's about doubling down on housing it's about a 10year Parks plan and a vision for the library it's about getting the lead out of your private waterline and expanding Child Care Solutions so you can support your family it's about continuing to invest in ways that make every neighborhood ones of choice and opportunity and it is about getting as many people through each day and each week as whole and as healthy as possible your vote is important and it's precious you're voting not just for someone you can work with but someone who you believe in we have this chance now to keep our momentum going and growing or we risk moving backwards my name is Emily Larson and I once again ask for your vote and for your support because our work together isn't done yet thank you thank you both and that is our time for tonight's Forum in the Northland featuring the candidates for duth mayor I would like to thank candidates Roger reinard and Emily Larson for sharing your thoughts tonight and your time um and for viewers now that you've heard from the candidates it's time to do your part get out and vote for your candidate of choice on Tuesday November 7th and if you missed any part of this program or want to re-watch it you'll find the full Forum on our website pbsn north.org for Forum producer Greg gr director Nick stolman and the rest of the team here at PBS North I'm Kelsey Ros good night I